20' Flounder/Flats build

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20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by flatfish on Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:54 pm

Hello all, In the coming weeks I will be building a 20' heavily modified from original plans with pocket tunnel hull. The boat will be primarily used for Flounder Gigging, Flats fishing and transportation to and from waterfowl blinds.

LOA: 20'
Beam: 7' 10 approximate

Sheer: Lowest possible (Approximate 15")
Completely Decked Stern to Bow
Outboard: 90 - 115 HP
Hydraulic Steering
Jack Plate
Alternate power: Push air motor (13 HP with 3 Blade Composite Prop Bow mounted controls) to be mounted to deck at the Stern (1.5" aluminum pipe) painted
In deck lockers (as per framing schedule)
Stern, Midship and Bow Rail (custom built 1"-1,5" aluminum pipe (painted)
Raised or Deck Mounted Console (in limbo) (have custom console design figured out still deciding if I want it raised)
Fuel: above deck 25 gal. Deck mounted Console (fuel tank mounted inside console. Raised Console option (fuel tank mounted under console platform)
Forward Bow (Full width submersible LED light bar) 20 watt x 10 Green (I have found that the green works best for semi stained water as we are accustomed to here) Reason for submerged LED is (###1 Mosquitos) (#2 no glare)
3 Batteries (1 console/ Controls and engine) 2 Bow for Lights

Need to figure out the picture posting and away we will go.

Working on a few mods on the plans for now so I will post some Hogged Laughing drawings for a visual description on my ideas please feel free once again to throw up the comments, don't do that ect. cheers



Build Method: Wood Lam/Stitch and glue

Plan on posting every step of the way in the event it may be useful to future builders. I am open to any and all comments and/or suggestions.

Skills: Advanced Carpentry, Advanced Welding/Fabrication
Tools: Wood working, hand and Electric planers, drills/impact drivers, 210 Hobart with Spool Gun, Tubing/Pipe benders (modified to bend aluminum without kinking) will post if anyone would like to know when time to fab up rail.

More to Come soon!!!!bounce bounce


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Re: 20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by Admin - Shine on Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:47 am

Excited to see it come together. Being able to weld your own parts is sure handy.

Sheer: Lowest possible (Approximate 15")
Completely Decked Stern to Bow
Outboard: 90 - 115 HP
Hydraulic Steering
Jack Plate
Alternate power: Push air motor (13 HP with 3 Blade Composite Prop Bow mounted controls) to be mounted to deck at the Stern (1.5" aluminum pipe) painted
In deck lockers (as per framing schedule)
Stern, Midship and Bow Rail (custom built 1"-1,5" aluminum pipe (painted)
Raised or Deck Mounted Console (in limbo) (have custom console design figured out still deciding if I want it raised)
Fuel: above deck 25 gal. Deck mounted Console (fuel tank mounted inside console. Raised Console option (fuel tank mounted under console platform)
Forward Bow (Full width submersible LED light bar) 20 watt x 10 Green (I have found that the green works best for semi stained water as we are accustomed to here) Reason for submerged LED is (###1 Mosquitos) (#2 no glare)
3 Batteries (1 console/ Controls and engine) 2 Bow for Lights

Sounds like you have it pretty well thought out.

Plan on posting every step of the way in the event it may be useful to future builders. I am open to any and all comments and/or suggestions.

that will be great!
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Re: 20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by Admin - Shine on Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:03 pm

Cutting down the sides is pretty easy. I would use MDF or particle board for the jig, build it upside down. When you cut out your side panles to put hem on the jig, make them a few inches taller than you think you want the final sheer line. Stitch up the hull, glass it, then you will use a thin piece of trim to bend over the sides that will define your desired lower sheer, use it to trim off the excess. This is the best way to get a fair shape.

some other questions......

1. Is the price the same for buy as you need or is that a kit special price?
2. Can you recommend cutting the sheer and framing for the build?
3. Would I be ok to use Meranti for the complete build
or should I use Okoume...

Its a little cheaper to buy the kit (I made an epoxy/glass kit for this boat, its at our website), but with our free shipping on orders over $150 you really cant go wrong. You will almost certainly use more epoxy than what the BOM says, no one has ever built one of those designs (myself included) and been less than 10% over the BOM.

As mentioned above, I would cut the new sheer after stitching and glassing. Stitch and glue boats tend to get a "droopy bow" due to the tension on the side panels, even after building several stitch and glue boats, its still something that is almost impossible to avoid. Trimming the new sheer after glassing will eliminate the "droop" and leave you with a very smooth flowing line.

I would have no problem using meranti for the boat you describe. Okoume is about 20% lighter than meranti, BUT in this case you are putting a lot of heavy things on board that will make up a greater % of the total boat weight. 3 guys, a big motor, batteries, fiberglass, tanks..... all of those are the same no matter what wood core you use.

My thoughts were:
15" sheer (freeboard)
completely decked without toe
Incorporate in-deck lockers as per framing layout

That is all pretty easy to do. No cockpit makes fairing a lot easier.

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Re: 20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by flatfish on Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:04 pm

Shine,

Thanks and agree with the suggestion of cutting after the glassing... keep it rigid and improve the lines...

Never thought about the frames (jig) I would assume cut them as per design and just cut the side panels a little wider than desired height and follow as your post (sheer line)

Side Panels:
Should I use the given dimensions and subtract my desired height from each given.

Framing:
Do you have any input on framing... spacing, type lightener holes ect.. thanks as I am trying to prepare to make an order...

For the first order I would like to be able to assemble the hull (bottom, sides, transom) I can figure the wood, I am wanting reference on the epoxy, filler, matt (glass/tape) basically assemble the shell...
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Re: 20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by flatfish on Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:44 pm

Console: Custom Console (will allow for in console mounted fuel tank (25 gal) to be mounted to deck as per balance to be determined... Build Note: will need backing plates for mounting


Raised Deck Option: Picture for visual affects
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Re: 20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by flatfish on Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:46 pm

Steering: Hydraulic
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Re: 20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by flatfish on Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:55 pm

Rail: Stern, Mid ship and bow. 1-1.5" aluminum pipe. Bent to form,  top rail will form beginning and end post. Rail post to be mounted to Deck with bolt flanges.. Build Note: Will need to plan for backing plates to mount Rails.


Bow Rail:



Mid Ship Rail:



Stern Rail: To wrap on Stern Corner (will plan and post pictures)
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Re: 20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by Admin - Shine on Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:08 pm



Side Panels:
Should I use the given dimensions and subtract my desired height from each given.

yes, so long as you want the same sheer line, but just lower, then you can draw them out normal, then offset the curve.

Framing:
Do you have any input on framing... spacing, type lightener holes ect.. thanks as I am trying to prepare to make an order...

I would use the one dimensioned in your plans, no reason to change anything.

If you plan to fill any of the compartments with foam, then no need for lightening holes. I personally dont think I would use any lightening holes, its just not much a weight savings compared to the amount of work (they have to be glassed/sealed.

For the first order I would like to be able to assemble the hull (bottom, sides, transom) I can figure the wood, I am wanting reference on the epoxy, filler, matt (glass/tape) basically assemble the shell...

This should get you to the flip stage:

6 gallons epoxy kit
15 yards 1708
3 rolls of DB1200 tape
5 lbs wood flour
1 8oz bag silica
2 bags of fairing compound.

you will probably have some glass left over, if your efficient.

I have a couple questions for you Very Happy

Do you plan to fill the compartments between frames/stringers with foam? If not, then there need to be limber holes. If you do not fill at least the outside compartments, the boat is going to feel very "hollow". If you leave them open with sealed hatches, it sure make life easier when you go to mount all those rails and tubing Very Happy

In your console drawing you have the batteries in the console with the gas tank. Those two need to be separate. The compartment for the gas tank needs to ventilated properly.

I think I hit all the points, let me know if not
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Re: 20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by flatfish on Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:03 pm

[quote="Admin - Shine"]


This should get you to the flip stage:

6 gallons epoxy kit
15 yards 1708
3 rolls of DB1200 tape
5 lbs wood flour
1 8oz bag silica
2 bags of fairing compound.  

you will probably have some glass left over, if your efficient.  
Got it, thanks. Is it best to order on website or call paying with CC

I have a couple questions for you Very Happy

Do you plan to fill the compartments between frames/stringers with foam?
Would you recommend this (that would be a lot of foam) I am figuring 15-18" sides... or would you just fill to stringer height

 If not, then there needs to be limber holes.  If you do not fill at least the outside compartments, the boat is going to feel very "hollow".
Would you please explain what you mean

  In your console drawing you have the batteries in the console with the gas tank.  Those two need to be separate.  The compartment for the gas tank needs to ventilated properly.

There is a wall between them (sorry not drawn) on this boat would I benefit from putting the fuel tank in the bow? 


My question on framing (xverse, Longitudinals) should I use the egg crate? if so what should the spacing be... how should the layout be maybe a drawing (lol I learn a lot from visual) My thoughts were to run stringers as planned, add full length Longitudinals notched to receive the xverse and the xverse to sit atop of the stringers (does this make since)

Example:
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Re: 20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by Admin - Shine on Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:43 am

Got it, thanks. Is it best to order on website or call paying with CC

whichever is easier for you, I enter them all into the website anyway for processing. Might be a good idea to call me when you have a chance to discuss the other questions you have.

Would you recommend this (that would be a lot of foam) I am figuring 15-18" sides... or would you just fill to stringer height

If it were mine, I would not fill the whole thing, that would be a LOT of foam and unnecessary weight. I would put the foam on the outside compartments, and fill them to the top. Each 2 gallon kit of foam will give about 500 lbs of buoyancy. Putting the foam to the outside will deaden some of the sound and give better upright stability were the boat to be flooded.

Would you please explain what you mean

limber holes are just half circles cut into the bottom of a stringer or frame to allow drainage. you can also put in a half round of PVC pipe under the stringer/frame then glass over the whole thing. The PVC gives protection so the epoxy coating never gets worm through in the limber hole

There is a wall between them (sorry not drawn) on this boat would I benefit from putting the fuel tank in the bow?

perfect, separate compartments with vents. No need to move it the bow, if you concerned with the small change in CG that makes to the boat, then just move the console up a few inches. Moving the console moves all the guys in the boat with it, which is a big shift in weight relative to the fuel. I like the idea of the fuel tanks in the console BTW, if it were mine, I think I would use portable tanks in the console (well vented) so that I could bring fuel to the boat without trailing to the gas station. Portable tanks also mean you dont have all the rigging of a permanent tank either.

My question on framing (xverse, Longitudinals) should I use the egg crate? if so what should the spacing be... how should the layout be maybe a drawing (lol I learn a lot from visual) My thoughts were to run stringers as planned, add full length Longitudinals notched to receive the xverse and the xverse to sit atop of the stringers (does this make since)

All the transverse framing does not need to be full height, just a ring frame is all that is required for most of them. I would certainly have a fuel height frame in the back (first frame). You can make the other frames only full height on the outside (between sides and outside stringers), this would give you spaces to foam.
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Re: 20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by Admin - Shine on Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:32 am

Oh Yeah, I found the security settings that disallowed link posting by new (under one week) users. You should be able to post links now, let me know if not
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Re: 20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by flatfish on Sun May 22, 2016 7:41 pm

Joel,

Will the Raka work with the marine epoxy,
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Re: 20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by flatfish on Sun May 22, 2016 7:59 pm

Below are the pics as the boat stands:


My helper, it sure does help to have someone calling out measurements LOL save the ol knees for sure


Bottom panels laid out and cut


Used planer to remove about 1/16 so that but joint seam laid flat



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Re: 20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by flatfish on Sun May 22, 2016 8:06 pm


Taping bottom seam (helps to have everything laid out and ready


Framing and stringers cut and assembled




Hull skin assembled and ready for spot welds



Hull skins stitched up, filleted and taped, once spot welds cured I went back and filled in with fillets and taped wet on wet


Last edited by flatfish on Sun May 22, 2016 8:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by flatfish on Sun May 22, 2016 8:12 pm



Some of you may know about this little tool that has made my life so much easier, its a brick motor tool it comes in 3/4 and 5/8 and works perfect for inside and outside fillets. Just scoop and run a fillet the excess will lay to the side and it is easily cleaned up with a flat scraper down each side... No waste virtually know cleanup and leaves a perfect fillet radius.

As with other metal tools used make dang sure you store it in some acetone or you will have fun trying to chisel the epoxy off ask me how I know Very Happy
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Re: 20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by flatfish on Sun May 22, 2016 8:44 pm


Tunnel cut out and assembled, all joints filleted and taped, 3" radius built with wood flour/epoxy and taped, used 2 offset layers of 6" tape per joint/seam and 2 offset layers over radius.


Tunnel installed Cut out bottom and transom, rounded all corners, filleted and tapped seams with two offset layers.. Glassed with 1708 mat that stuff is like a super sponge with no bottom...




Finished hull bottom butt seams two offset layers of 6" tape...


Next up to sand all high spots, drips and oops spots.. wet out and glass this beast... Covering bottom with 1708 will take a mixing crew to keep up... any tips Joel would be great... Laughing Laughing
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Re: 20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by flatfish on Sun May 22, 2016 9:06 pm

Joel,

Off topic of boat,,,, we have a barge we haul equipment on i.e. tractors vehicles ect. I need to paint the deck this summer and wanted to know what your thoughts were on using kwik grip, Do you think it will hold up?

I wanted something non skid as we use it to haul Hunters to and from the Islands during season and sometimes it ices and we have to salt it... just FYI over the past several years they have been painting it with basic house paint and it just don't last.

I also have a older Parker that needs paint bad, interior and exterior any recommendations on that as well... Do you carry something that would work...

I also have Duck Blinds to build and need to order materials (glass tape and epoxy and wanted to get with you on that as well.... let me know if your interested... and I will give you a call Monday to discuss...


Thanks..
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Re: 20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by Admin - Shine on Mon May 23, 2016 7:19 am

flatfish wrote:Joel,

Will the Raka work with the marine epoxy,

Yes, its the same. I came up with the marinepoxy brand myself, its just a nicer label.

You have made great progress. Glad to see you back Very Happy
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Re: 20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by flatfish on Mon May 23, 2016 10:20 pm

Joel,

I lowered my strong backs in order to prep for glassing the hull all tape seams are edge free any rough spots are smoothed out. One thing I am worried about is when lowering the strong back the boat moved a bit is there anything to worry about as far as it being out of square?? Or the fact that all joints are glasses and its build around stringers and frames will keep it true??

Is there anything to check for prior to glassing. Thanks.
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Re: 20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by Admin - Shine on Tue May 24, 2016 9:25 pm

The joints will keep the boat together, but can twist if your not careful. Measure the diagonalsame to make sure she is square before glassing
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Re: 20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by flatfish on Tue May 24, 2016 9:26 pm

Will do thanks.
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Re: 20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by flatfish on Thu May 26, 2016 5:48 am

Joel,
On the tunnel I noticed a few very small white spots, should I be concerned about them. If you look at the tunnel pics I posted you can see them. What's your thoughts just checking as I plan to laminate hull this weekend.

Also what do you recommend as far as batch sizes?
Should I put a heavy wet coat down first let it tack up and then wet out the 1708 from the top?


Thanks
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Re: 20' Flounder/Flats build

Post by Admin - Shine on Thu May 26, 2016 8:27 am

flatfish wrote:Joel,
On the tunnel I noticed a few very small white spots, should I be concerned about them. If you look at the tunnel pics I posted  you can see them.  What's your thoughts just checking as I plan to laminate hull this weekend.

I dont see anything in the tunnel picture that I would be concerned with at all.

Also what do you recommend as far as batch sizes?

Big, Very Happy For 1708 you should wet the mat side out on a table, roll the cloth up on a PVC piece, then roll it out onto the hull. Mark the hull and the glass with a sharpie so you can line everything up as you unroll it onto the hull. I would be mixing a couple quarts of epoxy at a time for that big lamination. You pour it out and spread it around with a roller or plastic spreader. You dont have to wet it out all the way, just get the mat soaked up a bit. You will then roll more on the top side once its on the boat. Come back with a laminating roller and/or a plastic spreader to compress the glass and finish the wet out

Should I put a heavy wet coat down first let it tack up and then wet out the 1708 from the top?

that is another way of doing it, but I get better results wetting out the mat side on a table.

Give me a call if you have more questions.


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